Curse

bhavv · Dec 13, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I've been reading through these mesmer forums and got quite a bit ticked off by how bad / epic fail some of the skill bars are. It seems that people have just completely forgotten how to play the class altogether and now rely on their secondary for stuff like fast cast fire ellys / rit spikers or echo vanguard assasin support instead of on their leet hax primary mesmer skills.

So to show the whole mesmer class some love, I thought I would share my Domination and Illusion builds which combine great utility and offensive power rolled together.

O.o Your probably thinking 'WTF how can that be done, mesmers do no damage from their skills lolz'. Well they do, and heres how:

The Illusion Bar:

[skill]accumulated pain[/skill][skill]arcane conundrum[/skill][skill]clumsiness[/skill][skill]wandering eye[/skill][skill]leech signet[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]energy drain[/skill][skill]pain inverter[/skill]

How to use it: Clumsiness and wandering eye are your main offense skills, allong with accumulated pain. You could also try arcane echo wandering eye, but I find that this bar works fine enough as it is. Also with the Epic E-management this bar has (Provided you can interupt), you will be able to spam your offensive skills continuosly without ever running out of energy. If you want more interupts, you can swap accumulated pain for power return, or try power leech instead of energy drain. For a little increased damage, try using Finish Him instead of Accumulated Pain, which is simply a more powerful wersion of the spell with instant cast, but has to be used on targets below 50% health.

Why no Ineptitude? Because then you wont have enough energy to spam clumsiness + wandering eye and the recharge on ineptitude is too slow. You would basically be doing less DPS with ineptitude then with clumsy + wandering eye with energy drain. Also an enfeebling blood SS hero and chaining a couple of Aegis on top >>> Blind on a single target, so Ineptitude is actually rather weak in PVE compared to the alternatives.

EDIT - I prefer Cry of pain instead of Accumulated pain on this bar now as it adds a great offensive punch to the clumsiness + wandering eye spam.

The Domination bar:

[skill]Cry of pain[/skill][skill]cry of frustration[/skill][skill]backfire[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill][skill]mistrust[/skill][skill]energy tap[/skill][skill]auspicious incantation[/skill][skill]Mantra of recovery[/skill]

This build utilises the greater offensive spells of the domination line up, and uses Mantra of recovery to quicken their recharge. E-management comes from Energy tap and Auspicious incantation, and optionally you may want to swap mistrust for Gole, but mistust is a nice AoE damage spell, particulary with the shortened recharge the elite brings. Cry of pain will also give you 100 AoE damage on any hexed target, when I tried in on my elly I prefered to just spam it on every recharge on a hexed foe rather then worrying about its interupt to maximise damage output. Pain inverter also works really well in place of Mistrust, particularly if you manage to hit caster bosses with a couple of backfire + pain inverter hits.

There are no resses in these bars as they are because I prefer them this way. But if you really need a res instead of just putting death pact signet on a couple of heroes, you can feel free to change what you like.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I've been reading through these mesmer forums and got quite a bit ticked off by how bad / epic fail some of the skill bars are.

Yay, let's bitch about shitty skillbars and then include Energy Drain as our elite of choice!
Let's try that again, shall we?

bhavv · Dec 13, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yay, let's bitch about shitty skillbars and then include Energy Drain as our elite of choice!
Let's try that again, shall we?

Ive highlighted why energy drain is used. It actually allows you to do more damage by continually spamming clumsiness and wandering eye. Its not a bad thing at all. Without you'll be at 0 energy in no time, especially if theres no casters to interupt.

Its rather funny how people think a great e-management skill is bad

.

Remember back in the day of prophecies, how many monks used to use it on their divine boon bars for E-management? Oh, I guess you didnt play GW then to realise.

Cebe · Dec 13, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yay, let's bitch about shitty skillbars and then include Energy Drain as our elite of choice!
Let's try that again, shall we?

Energy Drain isn't necessarily a bad skill. With many Mesmer elites it's more a case of "Which Mesmer elite is the least bad" rather than "Which Mesmer elite is the best". There aren't many Mesmer elites I'd describe as "fantastic"...if you don't want to take Ineptitude for the reason the OP states, what else is there? For what it's worth I agree with his choice of elite.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

The problem of E-drain is simple.
The thing isn't just e-management. It's e-denial also.
And because e-denial is bloody strong, the skill needs to be toned down. Which brings us to the lovely effect of PvE where foes do not follow the same rules regarding e-management.
So we have a skill that is worse because e-denial is just to powerful AND we have a skill that is even worse BECAUSE PvE functions differently.

So no, IF the plan is to highlight the superb things a mesmer can do - E-Drain HAS NOTHING to look in those builds!

That's the problem!

If you are looking for an elite that would work with that - there is nothing wrong with Assassin's Promise, which allows you to spam Power Drain which IS godly! Secondaries are there for a reason. BUT if the point is to show how sweet the mesmer can be with just mesmer skills - then we are dealing with a weak build from the start!

So much about you "great e-management skill".

Ohh and btw - those monks you mentioned ... if I am not mistaken ... are using GoLE now.
I wonder why ...

Cebe · Dec 13, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you are looking for an elite that would work with that - there is nothing wrong with Assassin's Promise,

I'm giving you a "O.o".

Assassin's Promise sounds pretty dodgy...and would need some pretty precision casting since it would also require investment into a 4th attribute line.

Velo · Dec 13, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Mantra of Recall returns more energy if u are not using a double set to recharge faster ispiration.

EDIT: To upier: ur reasonment is correct but u are missing something: in pvp there is the possibility that ur target won't have 8 energy points to drain, making this skill less useful for e-managment, so there is a nerf in energy gain because of the e-denial effect but it's balanced with a boost because of this issue, and since in pve mobs have always full energy u will always gain max effect. In fact E-drain is better than another elite skill whose only purpose is gaining energy (Mantra of Recall) IF u are able to switch sets since fast recharge is useless with MoR.

bhavv · Dec 13, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Energy drain here is not used with the function of draining energy, its to give you a clean +16 energy every 25 seconds. It works every time, same with energy tap. You can use Gole if you want to, It will save 20 energy, but then which elite do you use? Clumsiness + Ineptitude or Wandering Eye and Ineptitude are both a lot slower then just using Clumsiness and Wandering eye, Lo Sha in GWEN for example would be better of with clumsiness instead of ineptitude and no elite at all if you just want to look at how much damage he does.

What I was saying with my 'bitching' is why bother playing measmer just to be a fast cast elly or rit? Its just stupid if you ask me, mesmers are a lot better in any team as mesmers, not some second rate nuker.

Also, I now prefer it with Cry of pain instead of Accumulated pain, so just going to quickly add that to the OP...

Mantra of Recall makes a fine alternative elite as well, +10 energy every 20 seconds instead of +9 every 25 at 10 inspiration, so use it if you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I'm giving you a "O.o".

Assassin's Promise sounds pretty dodgy...and would need some pretty precision casting since it would also require investment into a 4th attribute line.

Exactly. I use 12+1+1 illusion, 9+1 FC, and 9+1 Inspiration. So where are there any points for assasins promise without actually hindering my mesmer skills lol.

Im looking to have enough energy to spam the skills continuously, Energy Drain allows that to happen. I havnt tested the domination bar except for on a hero without the PVE skills and it looks like energy might be more of a problem, but you can try Gole instead of energy tap, but I would keep energy tap and take out mistrust instead.

Velo · Dec 13, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

u can still use gole instead of leech signet, more energy, sure u will not interrupt anything but u will also save the time u use to find the caster and wait for him to cast something

audioaxes · Dec 13, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

have not played pve in forever but i would like to still believe you shouldnt need elite energy management

AtomicMew · Dec 13, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

it's funny because gole beats out e-drain and is not even elite. And the OP talks about how other mesmer builds are bad, lol.

Painbringer · Dec 13, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

What about [skill]channeling[/skill] ? lots of targets running around in pve

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velo

Mantra of Recall returns more energy if u are not using a double set to recharge faster ispiration.

EDIT: To upier: ur reasonment is correct but u are missing something: in pvp there is the possibility that ur target won't have 8 energy points to drain, making this skill less useful for e-managment, so there is a nerf in energy gain because of the e-denial effect but it's balanced with a boost because of this issue, and since in pve mobs have always full energy u will always gain max effect. In fact E-drain is better than another elite skill whose only purpose is gaining energy (Mantra of Recall) IF u are able to switch sets since fast recharge is useless with MoR.

Yeah, but E-Drain will not be primarily used as e-managemnet in PvP. (Well it won't even be used in it's current state, but ...)
So to say that it's better in PvE, because it's shit in PvP and is thus deserving a slot on "The one mesmer build to rule them all!" - is just WAY to much out there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I'm giving you a "O.o".

Assassin's Promise sounds pretty dodgy...and would need some pretty precision casting since it would also require investment into a 4th attribute line.

I pretty much don't know anyone that would be using AP with a high investment.
At 0 - AP lasts 5 secs. (And pays for itself!)
One sees something is going to die - one casts it! It's PvE - when foes LOOK like they're going to die - they DO!

Or in the case of the OP - he should have 7 attribute points free (12/9/9)
Which means he can go up to tier 3 - which means AP will last 8 secs (And have a net gain of 2 energy + the effect that one can REALLY spam Power Drain!)!

Basically the OP is using his elite to gain (7*2-5) 9 energy (E-Tap on the other hand - (6*2-5) 7 at the same investment!)! Which means he can't even cover the cost of ONE Clumsiness!
Great e-management skill!
And it's an ELITE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

What I was saying with my 'bitching' is why bother playing mesmer just to be a fast cast elly or rit? Its just stupid if you ask me, mesmers are a lot better in any team as mesmers, not some second rate nuker.

So to make the mesmer worth it we should be using stuff that is BAD?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

What about [skill]channeling[/skill] ? lots of targets running around in pve

Not worth it in PvE because of it's range.
You need to cast more then (max) 5 spells to break even for starters!
Or to bring it to GoLE level - you need to cast (max) 20 spells while in the area of foes!
When was the last time you cast 20 spells while standing next to foes in PvE?

Velo · Dec 13, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, but E-Drain will not be primarily used as e-managemnet in PvP. (Well it won't even be used in it's current state, but ...)
So to say that it's better in PvE, because it's shit in PvP and is thus deserving a slot on "The one mesmer build to rule them all!" - is just WAY to much out there!

-.- I never said it deserves a slot, I just said that it's not as underpowered as you said.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velo

-.- I never said it deserves a slot, I just said that it's not underpowered as underpowered as you said.

(First of all - my apologies. I thought you were advocating it's use!)

Second of all - that's completely irrelevant.
If an elite isn't performing at it's peak - it doesn't matter how relatively bad/good it is.
If it's not the best option - it doesn't deserve a slot!
Unless we are playing for fun ONLY!
In which case - this discussion is completely irrelevant.

bhavv · Dec 13, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Energy drain works great in that bar so I dont get what your QQ'ing about. The whole problem is looking for an elite that works. Ineptitude takes too long to recharge, so your left with inspiration. You can use power leech, energy drain, or mantra of recall if you want.

Gwen just does better with energy drain. Power leech is only going to work if you dont interupt anything else which is rather bad, and I dont think heroes have the knowledge to recast mantra as soon as it ends. The builds were primarily made for heroes and I tried re adjusting them for people because they work great.

Use them how you like, I couldnt care less if you want to change the elite to air of disenchantment or illusionary weaponry instead XD.

I guess I should have just put in cookie cutter gole and ineptitude instead, even though it works twice as good with energy drain over inept.

Also channeling is great in PVE. I dont know what your talking about but enemy mobs will always swarm your team and will be within your area to trigger it

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Energy drain works great in that bar so I dont get what your QQ'ing about. The whole problem is looking for an elite that works. Ineptitude takes too long to recharge, so your left with inspiration. You can use power leech, energy drain, or mantra of recall if you want.

Gwen just does better with energy drain. Power leech is only going to work if you dont interupt anything else which is rather bad, and I dont think heroes have the knowledge to recast mantra as soon as it ends. The builds were primarily made for heroes and I tried re adjusting them for people because they work great.

Use them how you like, I couldnt care less if you want to change the elite to air of disenchantment or illusionary weaponry instead XD.

I guess I should have just put in cookie cutter gole and ineptitude instead, even though it works twice as good with energy drain over inept.

Also channeling is great in PVE. I dont know what your talking about but enemy mobs will always swarm your team and will be within your area to trigger it

No it doesn't work "great". Because you're e-denialing the foes and that doesn't work in PvE to the extent that would justify bringing such an elite. So you're basically only using half your elite!
It works.
Just like Mending does.
Same thing with Channeling. To get enough out of it (it it doesn't get removed that is!) you're gonna be spending a LOT of time casting in the middle of the action! But in that case - you might as well go with the holy grail of "in the action" skills - Blackout! (Of course it won't trigger Channeling - but if you want to be in the middle of the action - Blackout is at least a skill that is worth it!)

But that doesn't make it a "great mesmer build".
It just makes it "a mesmer build"!

If the plan is to enlighten all the people that have no idea how insanely strong the mesmer is (man, I'd LOVE a /rolleyes emote for that) - the least one can do is to use skills that are actually good in PvE rather then just working!

And no - you aren't stuck with an Inspiration elite. (Although personally I'd use Power Leech. Just because I:
1. LOVE Inspiration
2. LOVE Power Leech
But don't get me wrong - Power Leech is like E-drain. It works, but it's not good! I just REALLY like!)
You can always go back to the very sweet [skill]Expel Hexes[/skill]! But then - let's be honest - throw Expel on the para - and you have the best thing about your mesmer, who is taking a slot on the party, in 1 skill slot on a godly PvE-class, which still has 7 more slots on his skillbar to fill!

Velo · Dec 13, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

hmm.. now that I think about it... I assume you are running 12 inspiration... with that energy drain will give you 11 mana each 25 secs (16-5 used to cast the spell). But if u use ether signet instead u will gain 18 energy each 45 secs wich is almost the same thing (it should give u 19.8 mana to be the same thing) 1,8 energy gain won't change ur life so why don't try bring something else as elite? SoI can be a good choice if it's not a bot to use it with some title spells. Even echo can be useful if u can't come up with a better elite.

EDIT: yeah of course expel exes is very good, and if u know u are about to go in an high condition area consider cautery signet